Former All Progressives Congress National Vice Chairman (North-West), Mallam Salihu Lukman, discusses his frustration with the ruling party, his differences with ex-Kaduna Governor Nasir El-Rufai, and the emerging coalition, including the League of Northern Democrats and the Social Democratic Party, in an interview with ADEBAYO FOLORUNSHO-FRANCIS
Your resignation from the APC came as a rude shock to Nigerians. For someone whose agitation for reforms led to the exit of former National Chairman, Senator Abdullahi Adamu and National Secretary, Iyiola Omisore, why throw in the towel when you should be happy?
People could be justified in saying I was frustrated. They could also be justified to expect that I would be happy that Senator Adamu and Senator Omisore left. But God knows I didn’t disagree with them on personal grounds. However, I disagreed with their style of leadership to the extent that the agreements inside the party were being jettisoned and thrown overboard. I made demands which they refused to consider. Even when we have what we consider an agreement, it doesn’t give them the consideration to say, ‘Okay, let’s come back and look at what these demands were and see how we can work it out’. They just continued business as usual. But having left, I expected that at the minimum, we would follow the constitution of the party to replace the two vacant positions.
What did the APC constitution say about it?
The constitution of the party gave states that produced the officers the opportunity to make the nomination of replacements which, in the case of Omisore, the National Secretary, you will see the provision of the constitution was followed. Osun State was given that opportunity. But in the case of Adamu, instead of that, the internal conversation within the party started at the highest level. I was privy to that. I was informed that the President wanted Dr Abdullahi Ganduje because he didn’t want him in the cabinet. During the campaign, he promised him, I was told, the position of the FCT minister. So I tried to engage some of the people on why the cabinet is not more important than the party. Why should the President sacrifice the party just to bring in Ganduje? I have no personal issue with him. But being somebody from the North-West, I also believe if, for whatever reason, you want to throw him up, leaders of the party from the North-West should be carried along.
Are you saying North-West bigwigs and stakeholders like you were not consulted before Ganduje was announced as the new APC chairman?
No! It wasn’t the case. Instead, what I see is a full-swing move to almost operate like a monarchy. Everybody around us was seeking to impress the president and see nothing wrong in his actions. Yes, the President has a wide range of potential to choose from. The issue of appointments was there and everybody was expectant. And that was what happened. I felt, even in terms of qualification on who to lead the party, it’s not somebody like Ganduje with all the baggage.
First, there were all manner of allegations. Two, in terms of knowledge of running party administration, I didn’t see him as competent, other than the fact that he was a former governor. And I didn’t hide my feelings. I made it very public. Sincerely speaking, I believe being a party with an ambition to be progressive, the minimum the party should have done is to at least allow internal debate and allow the superior position to win the battle. But no. From a situation where Senator Abdullahi Adamu has frozen the organs of the party. They were not meeting except the National Working Committee, which moved to a more terrible situation, whereby even if organs meet, you could see nothing in it. In fact, at the meeting (NEC) that elected Ganduje, there was no debate. I wasn’t there, but I could see. People were just looking at what the President wanted and were speaking to it.
Isn’t it possible the President consulted certain North-West stakeholders before announcing Ganduje as the new APC chair?
No, I challenged anybody to come out. Nobody was consulted. He single-handedly picked Ganduje. The other frustration, which I said people may be right about, is the leaders of North-Central, including party leaders of Nasarawa. They failed to speak up and take up the opportunity to assert themselves, to say, look, by the constitution of the party, this is our right. I wouldn’t hide it. I was highly disappointed by the governor of the Nassarawa State (Abdullahi Sule). And so long as politics is played this way, you see the truth and you just keep quiet. Now, if, as a governor, you wouldn’t stand up and protect the rights of your state, what are we to do? This was why, having decided to leave, it was clear to me after they finished all of that, they would come and say, you , because you have been outspoken, we don’t want you in the leadership role of the party. Of course, it was decided. So I said, look, I have made my name. I am not a product of godfather politics. I have no godfather. I am blessed to have leaders of the party who respect me, and on account of this, I was able to rise to the position. But I couldn’t take the risk of waiting for a decision to be taken to leave the party leadership. Once that has happened, it becomes a stain on my personality and anything I say thereafter, people will say it is because I was kicked out of the party. So I had to make that conscious decision, knowing fully well it would come with sacrifices that I had to make. But having done that, I still remain faithful to remain in the party to continue to advocate for internal reform within. I have done that, I think, up to July last year. But when it was clear to me that (virtually) everybody in the party I approached raised reservations that seemed to be saying, ‘Look, we can’t relate with you because you are too critical.’ It means I am seen as a threat. I was shut out. So I said, just a while ago I wrote letters to them, which came out publicly. That was when I said, look, my membership of the party has been rendered useless. This is about Nigeria. We have to identify people in the political landscape to begin to work with and see how we can salvage this situation, which is where we are now.
Have you met Tinubu since you resigned from APC?
I met him once. That was during the birthday of Baba Bisi Akande at the (Aso Rock) Villa. I had the privilege. I think it was the Speaker of the House of Representatives that took me to him. He greeted me and asked why I had not been coming. And I said I don’t know how to assess you. So he told the Speaker to bring me. But I have observed thereafter that whenever I raised it (the issue) with the Speaker, he found one excuse or the other. I mean, the reason is best known to them. I will not impose myself on anybody. I have moved on with my life because the world is bigger than all of us.
Do you regret dumping APC?
I am definitely happy I took that decision because it freed me from some of the current hangovers that I see around. I mean, politics is about choice. We made the conscious choice to be members of the APC. For those of us who were even there from the birth of APC, I keep making this point: If you are going to count five people who started the advocacy for mergers in this country, I will be among those five. That was even long before every leader saw the need. In fact, I started the advocacy immediately after the 2011 election. God knows, the first publication I tried, and it wasn’t even an organised thing, I just assembled some of my writings, including Open Letters to Asiwaju and put them as a packet. All I wanted was to gather opposition leaders. I called it ‘Manifesto of Opposition Politics in Nigeria’. And it happened, I think, in January 2012.
Are you not thinking of joining another party after your exit from APC?
After discovering that APC is far gone, almost beyond redemption, the project is basically to bring all leaders of the opposition and the disgruntled, what we call internally displaced politicians in the APC, to come together and try this time to produce a truly alternative party that will really promote political competition in the country. The frustration of Nigerians with the current democracy is that everything is predictable. You can predict that if we continue like this, Asiwaju is going to be the presidential candidate of APC in 2027. All the serving governors who are serving their first term will be the governorship candidate. And depending on the senators, House of Reps members and other House of Assembly members, how they relate to their leaders at the state level, governors and even the President, they will be returned. The same cry we used to have in 2007 to 2011 about votes not counting, you can predict that the 2027 election will not be about the votes of Nigerians, it will be about what current political leaders who are serving term, from the President down the line, want. And we are already seeing it in their arrogance. Some of the statements which I have referred to by even Dr Ganduje, who is saying that people should know that ‘There is no vacancy in Aso Rock.’ I mean, it’s only an illiterate, somebody who doesn’t understand what politics is all about that could talk in that manner. The mere fact that the constitution provides there will be an election means there is a vacancy. But that well-schooled and well-informed people like Dr Ganduje will be making that statement is the height of rascality and arrogance. I respect them, but we have to tell them the blunt truth.
You don’t seem to believe a change in INEC leadership can restore voters’ confidence.
Look, I am just hoping it doesn’t get worse. You need to see their level of arrogance to understand my point. A scholar once talked about democracy without democrats. What we are witnessing is that reality. The mere fact that you are having festivals of crisis across the political landscape from Kano, Rivers, Osun, Lagos, and it’s spreading. Go and read the theories of democracy. One of its strengths is the capacity to negotiate and reconcile disagreements. And if anything, what we are seeing in Nigeria is the inability of the current set-up to reconcile anybody. Instead, it’s more like a show of force. I mean, look at what happened in Lagos State. The case of Lagos State is a clear example of the failure of the current democratic system. Even the majority, from the governor to the people in the Governor’s Advisory Council, and when you talk to leaders of APC in Lagos State, they were all unanimous that the speaker should go. How that situation is now reversed and an imposition of the highest grade has taken place, and people in Lagos are living with it is baffling.
What is the update on the coalition of opposition and the proposed mega party?
I don’t know whether it’s a mega or whatever. Look, let me be honest with you. There are different ways of thinking. The conventional politicians just want another platform which they can use to contest elections to defeat Asiwaju.
There are some of us who, beyond defeating Asiwaju, want to reform Nigerian democracy. We want to correct the mistakes of the APC. We want to ensure that some of the things that made APC attractive are reproduced in a way that makes it possible to achieve. What other things did APC promise in 2015? APC promised to change Nigeria. What was the change Nigerians were looking at? The frustration of Nigerians with PDP is that the culture of imposition has taken over PDP. You don’t hold a primary, you just impose candidates. So, when APC promised to change Nigeria, citizens expected that truly the culture of imposition would be done away with. Unfortunately, we are now at a deeper level of imposition. So, no competition is taking place. You remember I have argued this in my writings, even when we were fighting Mai Mala Buni as chairman of the Caretaker Committee in 2021. My argument was that for the leadership of the party, there should be an election. I must confess. Although I was a beneficiary, I had my reservation, but I couldn’t do much. I was a beneficiary of the so-called unity list, where governors sat down and of course, imposed us as leaders of the party. People who bought forms were enticed and were promised that if they voluntarily stepped down from us, they would be refunded their money.
Was that not the same issue that made one of the APC chairmanship aspirants drag Ganduje and the party to court?
Exactly! To date, it has not been done. Now, we have to change all of that. For me, I have told all the people that we are discussing. The new party that will emerge should not be based on the tradition that those who want to contest elections should just nominate and second their surrogates to go and lead the party. I mean, if we do that, I will be the first to start fighting and say this party will not take us anywhere. If we open up the parties and say, okay, starting with membership registration, you remember as we did in APC, go and do ward congresses, local government, and it’s free and you hold elections, then we are moving. We will use at least one year to conduct the affairs of the party in a way that gives confidence. People can come in and contest to become candidates of the party at a different level and the person with followership wins the election. Then we are moving in the right direction. For me, the starting point is that the leadership of the party must surrender itself to say, okay, we are ready to go through the election once people come in. If people elect us, fine. If people don’t elect us, we accept it.
Why have you not considered joining El-Rufai in SDP ahead of this mega-party discussion?
People have raised the issue of the SDP. And for me, honestly, I have also had discussions with at least the national chairman of the SDP. The problem is that I will see that the SDP, especially the national chairman, doesn’t appear to be open to allowing a democratic process. He doesn’t want to submit himself to say, okay, I want to go through a democratic process if I am returned as chairman of the party. But if tomorrow he changes and says, okay, I’m ready to go through that, we are ready to do business with SDP. Again, I have seen individuals like Mallam Nasir El-Rufai moving to the SDP. I don’t have a problem with that. I just hope that in the end, they will understand this business is not about elections. Nigerians are not looking for a party that will just throw up candidates. They are looking for a party that will allow for competition. If that is the term, I will support it. But anything short of that, I will not be part of it.
Where is the place of the League of Northern Democrats in all of these?
Honestly, at the beginning, I had high expectations of the League of Northern Democrats. But it appears from the convener that they have mismanaged the process by imposing Senator Ibrahim Shekarau as the chairman. I didn’t hide it. At the meeting of the League of Northern Democrats, I criticised Senator Shekarau because I argued that the kind of politics any so-called League of Northern Democrats should be playing is to throw up people who can unite the North. At the moment, the North is so divided. That is my criticism of Shekarau, I have respect for him, but he doesn’t take care of the criticism. This is because, even in Kano, he is a divisive leader. He cannot unite leaders in the state. I challenge them and I am ready to debate this openly with all of them. And they are approaching it in almost a desperate way. Right now, I heard them talking about registering for a party. Are they registering it for the North? Then it doesn’t meet the Electoral Act requirements. For a party to be registered to contest the election, it has to have a national spread. So I see a lot of confusion. And they are not ready because they don’t even hold meetings. I challenged them to disclose publicly when last they held a meeting. They only have a WhatsApp platform, where people talk about all manner of things. So it’s almost like, I don’t want to say business set up, but it’s almost like an ‘arrangee’ kind of thing.
Many people have different perspectives about your relationship with El-Rufai. Some describe you as a stooge, others as an ally. Can you clarify this?
The best I can say is that we respect each other. He was my governor. Beyond that, I had a relationship with him before he even became governor. But in that relationship, and I say this all the time, even when I disagree with Adams (Oshiomhole) and he called me a pig, I come from the background of an extended family. I can respect you, but if I disagree with you, I’ll express my disagreement. My disagreement does not take away the respect I have for you. But if you mistake my disagreement for disloyalty and decide not to do business with me, I won’t impose myself. I think that is my relationship with El-Rufai. To date, I still disagree with his politics. That does not mean we don’t have a point of convergence. We had a point of convergence when, under the leadership of Comrade Adams Oshiomhole, he was doing wrong things. I was just the DG of the Progressive Governors’ Forum. Beyond being the DG, I was also a member of the party, with clarity of what I wanted. Again, beyond being a member of the party, I am a Nigerian. So, I came out publicly, and somehow I didn’t consult any governor. His Excellency, (Atiku) Bagudu, is alive likewise all the governors of that generation. You can check with them. They read all my statements in the public the same way every Nigerian read it. I can tell you some of the governors. Governor Sanwo-Olu, Prince Dapo Abiodun, Hope Uzodimma, (Bello) Masari of Katsina, and former Kano Governor Ganduje were unhappy with me.
If you are close as critics say, why didn’t El-Rufai carry you along with his SDP defection plan?
Yes, I am close to Mallam El-Rufai to the extent that we come from the same state and belong to the same party. And I had the privilege of being nominated by him to serve on the National Working Committee of the APC. Of course, as everybody knows, we have our disagreements. His defection is expected even after the interview he granted on Arise TV. You can see the handwriting. But I expected that he should have been a bit patient for us to walk out as a group based on the ongoing negotiation. But he knows better, and I do hope his decision is not going to become a kind of breakaway from whatever we are doing. I hope that in the end, we will be able to reconcile and work together under one platform.
